Is too much salt really bad for you?

[Audio Terrorist]

Too much salt/sodium etc... is bad for you if you believe the media, government warnings and food packaging etc...

The problem is, I can't work out why it is actually bad for you. The general conscientious (from what I have read and from what people believe that I have asked) is that it is bad for your heart. I had a little look around and pretty much all I could find was that too much salt is bad because it draws water out of cells making blood vessels constrict making it harder for your heart to pump blood around your body. This could increase the risk of high blood pressure, stroke and heart attacks. Which is obviously the bad bit.

But... wouldn't drinking enough water counteract that? And for people with hypertension, there are plenty of cheap anti-hypertensive drugs on the market that have a pretty low incidence of side effects which are generally pretty mild anyway (dizzyness, light headedness etc..) which for most people go away after a couple of days/weeks anyway.

From my understanding, a lack of salt can cause vasoconstriction as well which would increase blood pressure and have the same bad side effects as too much salt. A lack of salt can cause muscle cramps, if a person that has a lack of salt then takes up a strenuous exercise regime, they are more likely to sweat out even more salt, diluting their blood plasma possibly causing hyponatremia which this can and has caused death in people considered previously healthy (Marathon runners, Athletes i.e Craig Barrett, Dancers and probably most famously (or infamously) in England, Leah Betts). Hyponatremia can cause the brain to swell which is surely worse than a maybe possible increase in a persons chances of a stroke or heart attack.

If you have 2 working Kidneys, wouldn't any excess salt just be urinated out anyway?


Hopefully this should cause some pretty interesting discussion. And I really hope to learn something. I'm not a biologist, I've done very minimal training in any body science so my knowledge isn't the greatest out there. It was just something I questioned myself and did a little research on.

Thanks for reading!

 

[Wyld 4 X]

I have heart disease running rampant in my family (among other lovely diseases) so I have not added salt to my food since I was a kid. I rely on sodium occurring naturally in the food I eat or I will eat workout supplements that have sodium in it. This is only a portion of prevention but I havent missed the salt intake.

 

[euphoria]

I just generally feel like shit when I eat too much salt. My fingers swell up, I get dizzy, I feel nauseous. I think that's enough proof for me that my body doesnt like it. I never use salt when cooking or anything, just sometimes eat things that have salt in them.

 

[delta_9]

Does anybody here use solo salt? It has 60% less sodium and uses magnesium and potassium chloride instead
I definately recommend it for those who are sensative to sodium or those who just plain use too much of it during the day.

 

[ebola?]

But... wouldn't drinking enough water counteract that?

Well...the degree to which people's blood pressure responds to sodium intake varies a great deal, genetically, with sum sweat output, etc. I guess that this likely has to do with idiosyncracies of your body's regulation of hydration, production of urine, etc.

So...I'd consider reducing salt intake if you have a cardiac condition...or even if your BP is a little high. What's there to lose?

Also, IIRC, the average American ingests 3x the RDA for salt.

ebola

 

[thujone]

Well...the degree to which people's blood pressure responds to sodium intake varies a great deal, genetically, with sum sweat output, etc. I guess that this likely has to do with idiosyncracies of your body's regulation of hydration, production of urine, etc.

good call. salt water is more conductive than normal water. there's a reason they call that shit ELECTROLYTES. problem is, too much of one will fuck with the balance of the others and throw a wrench in your body's self-regulated works.

here is a good link: http://www.streetdirectory.com/trav...ntake_and_your_bodys_electrolyte_balance.html

 

[ResidentJunglist]

nothing in excess is good for you...

salt slows your metabolism.

 

[Audio Terrorist]

Does anybody here use solo salt? It has 60% less sodium and uses magnesium and potassium chloride instead
I definately recommend it for those who are sensative to sodium or those who just plain use too much of it during the day.

Has there been any research on the differences to your health of plain sodium type salt or the others?

I wouldn't have thought that loading your body up on metals in general would be a specifically healthy thing for someone to do unless you happen to be deficient in the first place.

We (most people) get the traces of metals we need to stay healthy from a normal varied diet, I would imagine that shaking magnesium and potassium (chloride or otherwise) over your food would be pretty bad for your health even in small (-ish) amounts.

I've seen the "low salt" types of salt but I don't really like to believe that something is better for you than something else just because the manufacturer says it is.

People have been using good old fashioned Sodium Chloride for decades with very little proven complications (Major complications anyway) without excessive use.

salt slows your metabolism.

I've never heard that one. Do you have a link? I wouldn't mind having a read.

 

[Audio Terrorist]

I have heart disease running rampant in my family (among other lovely diseases) so I have not added salt to my food since I was a kid. I rely on sodium occurring naturally in the food I eat or I will eat workout supplements that have sodium in it. This is only a portion of prevention but I havent missed the salt intake.

I understand reducing salt intake if you do have family history or personal health problems. My post was referring to the general public. I'm not sure what it's like in the USA or rest of the world but the UK government have decided in their "superior" intelligence and understanding of sciency stuff that a healthy limit is 6 grams daily. This means that food manufacturers have had to cut out a load of salt from their foods making it more likely for me to reach for the salt pot than I would have before and probably actually increasing the amount of salt i ingest daily than I would have before the change.

 

[ebola?]

I wouldn't have thought that loading your body up on metals in general would be a specifically healthy thing for someone to do unless you happen to be deficient in the first place.

Other ions don't appear to exert a similar effect on blood pressure, although IIRC, there is some suspicion that the chloride ion bears some of the 'responsibility' for table salt's potential ills.

I wouldn't have thought that loading your body up on metals in general would be a specifically healthy thing for someone to do unless you happen to be deficient in the first place.

Well, a lot of people tend to find benefits from supplementing potassium and magnesium, and our diets tend not to be particularly high in them. Also, these metals tend not to cause many negative effects when taken in large but plausible amounts.

People have been using good old fashioned Sodium Chloride for decades with very little proven complications (Major complications anyway) without excessive use.

We have also experienced high rates of heart disease for decades.

I understand reducing salt intake if you do have family history or personal health problems. My post was referring to the general public.

mmm...I'm estimating that around half of people (in the US) fit such a description.

This means that food manufacturers have had to cut out a load of salt from their foods making it more likely for me to reach for the salt pot than I would have before and probably actually increasing the amount of salt i ingest daily than I would have before the change.

I doubt it. People tend to be far more prudent salting food themselves than eating heavily pre-salted processed foods.

ebola

 

[bpayne]

its not only that its your blood pressure too.

 

[Kim1989]

I eat tons of salt. on everything. on pasta on salad in my ketchup, I cook with it and then put more on when i get to the table. I have really low blood pressure, my norm in 90 over 65. but there is no history of heart problems in my family, is salt really THAT bad for me? I drink tons of water, but i've always been curious....

 

[delta_9]

Has there been any research on the differences to your health of plain sodium type salt or the others?

There has been much research done that shows excess salt is linked to hypertension.

We (most people) get the traces of metals we need to stay healthy from a normal varied diet, I would imagine that shaking magnesium and potassium (chloride or otherwise) over your food would be pretty bad for your health even in small (-ish) amounts.

Sodium works with potassium in the body to maintain water balance and proper nerve and muscle impulses. The more Na is consumed, the more K is needed, and since the average daily intake of K is only ~4g, relative deficiency is widespread. Is it much better to supplement some of the Na with K to better even things out.

Yes, some of the food we eat already contains the vitamins/minerals/proteins/amino acids/essential fats/whathaveyou that we need to survive(hence why a diet of mainly raw foods is just so darn great ), but take into consideration these factors.
1)Mineral levels in natural foods are declining. This is party because soil loses it's mineral content over time. Analysis of plants from 1939 and 1991 shows an average drop in mineral levels of 22%.
2)Essential minerals are fined out of foods. Foods like rice, flour, and sugar have almost all of their nutrients removed from the during the refining process.
3)Our mineral needs are increasing. Analysis of blood, hair, and swear of several thousand people has been done over the last few years. When compared with the persons's age, it has showed the levels of lead, cadmium, aluminum, and mercury are increasing with age., while magnesium, selenium, chromium, manganese, and zinc are decreasing with age.
4)Vit/Min levels are further lowered when the food is cooked.

When you consider all these factors(and others), you'll see that the nutrient levels of the average diet are pretty out of wack.

 

[ebola?]

4)Vit/Min levels are further lowered when the food is cooked.

Well, only sometimes, and often practically irrelevantly.
For example, cooking tomatoes improves absorption of vitamin c and lycopene from them, and extremely high consumption of raw fiber can reduce micronutrient absorption.

ebola

 

[lazygit]

I typically drink atleast 2-3 litres of plain filtered water a day and crave salt.

The cases in which people have died from drinking too much water on and off E could have been reduced by drinking sports drinks or adding electrolytes as too not be overhydrated.

I remember a woman died drinking alot of plain water in a competition to win a games console. How silly!

 

[delta_9]

Well, only sometimes, and often practically irrelevantly.
For example, cooking tomatoes improves absorption of vitamin c and lycopene from them, and extremely high consumption of raw fiber can reduce micronutrient absorption.

ebola

More than just sometimes. Everytime you cook food you change it, and the longer you cook food, the more free radicals you produce(especially when deep frying or grilling), and the more nutrients you destroy.

 

[Audio Terrorist]

There has been much research done that shows excess salt is linked to hypertension.

Any links? I've had a quick look, and will look at more in the future when I get chance but I've not seen many if any (off the top of my head) which showed that eating a reasonable amount of salt would have a significant effect on someone's blood pressure. Obviously if your ingesting 20g of salt daily then it is to be expected that it will have negative effects on your health.

If you have healthy kidneys and no personal or family history of relevant illnesses wouldn't they just remove any excess salt which would then be excreted?

I know that before blood pressure medications were made, then all that doctors could do to reduce a person's blood pressure would be to limit the person's intake of salt. But from what I understand, this never had too much of an impact of the person's blood pressure.

1)Mineral levels in natural foods are declining. This is party because soil loses it's mineral content over time. Analysis of plants from 1939 and 1991 shows an average drop in mineral levels of 22%.

2)Essential minerals are fined out of foods. Foods like rice, flour, and sugar have almost all of their nutrients removed from the during the refining process.

Ok, but you also must take into account that people in 2009 have a greater access to foods that they wouldn't have in 1939. So the levels of certain vitamins and minerals may have reduced but the consumption of various foods has increased. I couldn't say whether that has canceled the problem out without looking into it but I'm pretty confident it would have reduced the impact of the vitamin/mineral decline on the general population. Plus, more people are aware of the need to consume a varied healthy diet than there was in 1939 so I would be inclined to believe that the general population would have increased their consumption of foods with vitamins and minerals etc...

3)Our mineral needs are increasing. Analysis of blood, hair, and swear of several thousand people has been done over the last few years. When compared with the persons's age, it has showed the levels of lead, cadmium, aluminum, and mercury are increasing with age., while magnesium, selenium, chromium, manganese, and zinc are decreasing with age.

I don't understand that comment. Why are people's mineral requirements increasing?

4)Vit/Min levels are further lowered when the food is cooked.

This effect can be reduced if food is cooked in say a steamer and of course if it isn't overcooked. But when you cook food, you do change it's chemical structure which depending on what food your talking about can make the food more readily absorbed plus food poisoning would obviously cause a massive loss in vitamins and minerals so I would rather stick with a lot of my food being cooked.

Anyway, the conversation has gone slightly off topic. I don't doubt that people need vitamins and minerals, I'm just interested in this case specifically about eating Sodium Chloride in slight-moderate amounts above the UK's guidline of 6g daily.

I've just read my post, I think it comes off as being a bit argumentative, it's really not supposed to be. I appreciate everyone's input. I'm just questioning how you come to your conclusions so I have an understanding myself. If I believe something that is wrong, I do like people to let me know. It improves my knowledge; and if I'm right, then my head get's ever so slightly larger ha ha!

 

[ebola?]

Ignore what follows: it's redundant w/ what's above it.

More than just sometimes.

Sometimes: it covers everything between never and always.

Everytime you cook food you change it, and the longer you cook food, the more free radicals you produce(especially when deep frying or grilling), and the more nutrients you destroy.

1. Yes you change it, and sometimes to the end of the process, you increase the quantity of bioavailable nutrients.
2. I'm not sure if this is plausible, but are there situations where 'natural' free radicals are denatured by cooking?

 

[delta_9]

No, I didn't think you were being really argumentative, I just got side tracked a little while I was typing and kinda went off topic a bit.

Any links?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Ok, but you also must take into account that people in 2009 have a greater access to foods that they wouldn't have in 1939. So the levels of certain vitamins and minerals may have reduced but the consumption of various foods has increased. I couldn't say whether that has canceled the problem out without looking into it but I'm pretty confident it would have reduced the impact of the vitamin/mineral decline on the general population. Plus, more people are aware of the need to consume a varied healthy diet than there was in 1939 so I would be inclined to believe that the general population would have increased their consumption of foods with vitamins and minerals etc...

I disagree. People in 1939 also didn't have hfcs, msg, aspartame, residues of pesticides/herbacides in their foods, or genetically engeneered foods.
Yeah, more peopel have general health awareness than people a century ago, but the quality of and the food and even the quality of life is going down. People are living increasingly sedentary lifestyles eating more and more processed foods.
The fact is, humans are meant to run mainly on carbohydrates, with some fat and protein in the backround(roughly 65%,18%,17% respectively). This is an evolutionary fact. But the modern human diet consists of mainly fats and sugars, with protein and carbs bringing in the rear.

I don't understand that comment. Why are people's mineral requirements increasing?

I was simply saying that some toxic minerals build up in the body and when these antinutrients begin to increase you must therefore increase levels of nutrients to stay healthy.

This effect can be reduced if food is cooked in say a steamer and of course if it isn't overcooked. But when you cook food, you do change it's chemical structure which depending on what food your talking about can make the food more readily absorbed plus food poisoning would obviously cause a massive loss in vitamins and minerals so I would rather stick with a lot of my food being cooked.

This comes back to what I was saying about the modern human diet begin fucked up. If we grew out oun crops and raised our oen livestock(like our ancestors did), food poisioing would not really be an issue and you could eat practically every meal raw...if you wanted to of course.
Anyway, yeah sorry about getting this thread off track, feel free to PM me if you wanna talk more. :D

-edit for ebola?

1. Yes you change it, and sometimes to the end of the process, you increase the quantity of bioavailable nutrients.
2. I'm not sure if this is plausible, but are there situations where 'natural' free radicals are denatured by cooking?

1. I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying it's my opinion that more harm is usally done than good. The best way to eat food is raw so why mess with it and cook it
2. Good point. I'm sure that's often the case in certain foods.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

The levels of sodium in the body's extracellular fluid (ECF) are pretty tightly regulated, in healthy individuals, by hormones that open or close ion channels in the kidneys. The concentration set-point for sodium, and the volume of the ECF, are high enough to buffer the effects of relatively high, or low, sodium intakes. You eat too much, your kidneys concentrate more of it in your urine. You eat too little, your kidneys reabsorb almost all of it. This is regulated, IIRC, by the hypothalamus, which can sense sodium concentrations in the body.

The people who have to worry are people whose feedback loop for maintaining the ECF sodium concentration is broken. This usually means their kidneys are not up to par, but it could also be a problem with the hypothalamus or pituitary (which can lead to sodium wasting and hyponatremia).

When the sodium concentration in your blood goes up, water is pulled out of your cells temporarily to correct the concentration. This causes an increase in blood volume and pressure, and temporarily stresses all organs involved in moving and processing blood, especially heart and kidneys. So if you already have a bum heart or hardened blood vessels that can't expand, eating salt is the last thing you want to do. Kidneys shot? You won't be able to clear this extra salt very fast, and this stress will remain for some time.

Many cells, especially neurons, REALLY don't take kindly to having much water sucked out of them. This is why hypernatremia can cause brain and peripheral nerve damage.

Other cations are maintained in your body's cells and ECF at typically much lower concentrations, and in much smaller ranges, than sodium. Potassium is easier to overdose on than sodium for most people, and doing so can kill you.